Hair What I'm Saying
"Hair What I'm Saying" is created to share real life experiences with real people in the beauty industry to promote healthy relationships with consumers and Beautyprenuers. We will get into the nitty gritty of the backend of hair/salon business to help consumers understand why certain policies are implemented in order to sustain a healthy balanced salon environment for both parties, while consumers share their unprofessional and challenging experiences behind the chair. The goal is to bridge the gap to understand one another's perspective in hopes of clarity and unity.
Hair What I'm Saying
Hair Loss and Restoration with Dermatologist, Dr. Saya Obayan, MD, MPH, FAAD
Discover the passionate journey of Dr. Saya Obayan, a celebrated board-certified dermatologist, as she shares her inspiring story from her childhood in Nigeria to founding Nature of Skin Dermatology in Austin, Texas. Her unique insights on treating hair and skin conditions for people of color are informed by personal experience and a deep-seated commitment to her patients. With a special emphasis on hair care challenges, Dr. Saya Obayan offers invaluable guidance on maintaining healthy hair without compromising style, addressing emotional and practical hurdles faced by those dealing with hair loss.
Explore the profound connection between lifestyle choices and hair health as we navigate topics ranging from nutritional impacts to innovative treatments. Dr. Saya Obayan shares her expertise on the influence of stress, diet, and underlying health conditions on hair thinning. She provides practical solutions, including over-the-counter products and cutting-edge restoration techniques like PRP. Her comprehensive approach encourages a proactive stance on hair care, empowering listeners with the tools and knowledge needed to make informed decisions.
Join us as we debunk prevalent hair myths and highlight the importance of scalp health, offering actionable tips for a diverse clientele. Dr. Saya Obayan's advice on maintaining a balanced pH and choosing the right products is especially valuable for those seeking personalized care for various hair types. With practical recommendations and a compassionate approach, this episode equips listeners with essential insights to enhance their hair care routines, fostering confidence and well-being in their hair health journey.
Stay Connected with Dr. Saya Obayan by following the links below:
Nature of Skin: Instagram
Dr. Saya Obayan: Instagram
Email: contact@natureofskinatx.com
Phone Number: (512) 312-7552
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Welcome to today's episode of Hair what I'm Saying. I'm thrilled to introduce a very special guest, dr Saya O'Brien, a board-certified dermatologist and the founder of Nature of Skin Dermatology in Austin Texas. Dr O'Brien is re-owned for her expertise in treating hair and skin conditions, particularly those affecting people of color, with a holistic and personalized approach, she has transformed the lives of countless patients by addressing issues like hair loss, hyperpigmentation and other complex dermatological concerns. Not only is Dr Obayan highly respected in her field, but her work has also directly impacted my own clients, helping them regain confidence through effective hair restoration treatments. Her dedication to crafting tailored solutions for every individual truly sets her apart. Today, we'll dive into her journey as a dermatologist, the science behind hair loss and restoration, and her expert advice on maintaining healthy hair and scalp. Welcome to the Hair what I'm Saying podcast. I'm your host, kenetra Stewart. Today we have Dr Saya Obayan, of Nature of Skin, located in Austin Texas, joining us. A dermatologist a bomb dermatologist, may I add. How?
Speaker 2:are you today? I'm doing great today. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:No thank you, for it's an honor to have you on the show. Thank you, as stated, you have helped so many of my clients restore their hair loss, and I'm just happy to meet you.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy to be here, and thank you so much for sending your clients too.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I always, especially if I can't help and I know someone that can help, I'm going to push them out right here and it feels good to you know, have someone and know someone that can help, because you hate feeling helpless. I know, you know, when it's beyond your expertise and you have no one that you can just refer out, you feel so helpless, Absolutely. And then it becomes this extensive Google search of you know of no end. Yeah At all, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, sometimes it's helpful. Sometimes you find someone but you don't know too much about them. I've been in Austin for 10 years now, oh wow, and so I've been treating hair loss in Austin for 10 years.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a great place to treat hair loss. It is. I know the clientele, the market out here. You know the demographic area, specifically for black women too, it's really hard to find a, a dermatologist that can cater to. You know our specific hair loss, even skin needs, you know. So it felt good to find you. Thank you, franella. Shout out to Franella. Thank you, franella.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Franella, franella's the reason.
Speaker 1:Thank you, franella, we miss you. Yeah, we do. Can you start telling us a little bit about your background and how you, you know, became a dermatologist? Sure.
Speaker 2:Well, I was born in Nigeria Okay, in Lagos, nigeria and immigrated here with my family when I was about eight years old, lived in Atlanta, lived in DC, lived in Detroit oh my, you've been traveling everywhere, everywhere. My mother's a physician as well. She's a PM&R physician, oh wow. And so she really got me interested in medicine in the first place, in medicine in the first place. When we were about 12, 13 years old, I used to spend time in the hospital with my mom because we couldn't afford babysitters. She was in residency. She got divorced from my dad, really yeah, so y'all were living there.
Speaker 2:We lived at the hospital, so all the residents took us under their wings. They showed us to patient rooms, they would talk to us about medical things, they gave me textbooks and I fell in love with medicine.
Speaker 1:That was such a great gift. Yes, you know, even through some of the, you know, unfortunate you gained a lot of fortune, absolutely. You know, oh my goodness, that's amazing yeah.
Speaker 2:How old were you? I was about between the ages of 11 and 13.
Speaker 1:Okay, and you had siblings too. I do Okay, and so they also had that same experience with you as well. They sure did, oh my goodness, yeah, are you the oldest, youngest.
Speaker 2:One of the oldest, so I have a twin sister. I have two younger sisters, you have a twin. I have a twin. Oh my goodness, oh wow. But she said medicine is not for her. She does social media marketing. She's launching a really amazing inclusive dating app called Cupid AI. Oh wow. So she's in the middle of doing that, she lives in Puerto Rico. She's fabulous.
Speaker 1:Oh, shout out to her, she's fabulous. Yes, oh man, my sister Sola, I love you. Sola. Oh, my goodness, social media marketing. She's creating a dating app. She is. Oh, wow, how is that going for her?
Speaker 2:I think it's a lot of work. You know there's a lot of funding and angel investors she has to talk to, but I think she's finally done with the prototype and I hope that she comes to South by Southwest next year.
Speaker 1:Oh, to like promote. Oh, my goodness, that's my hope. Yeah, yeah, that would be great for her. That's going to Do they have any dating apps out there on the extent that she's creating with AI? No, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:No, this was like I've never heard of it, yep, and the technology is patented, so she's the only one that can you go, girl she like, because this is mine. Yes, ai, it's the next thing, it's the next big thing, right, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is ai social media, all of this. Absolutely it's a great um industry to tap into. For sure it's not going anywhere. I know there's a scare about tiktok, but'm like I don't believe TikTok is going anywhere. Yeah, it's too big, you know, I just don't see it. But we'll see, but I just don't see it. What are the different types of hair loss and how can someone identify the signs of each?
Speaker 2:Okay, so there are two large categories of hair loss. Right, there's non-scarring hair loss and then there's scarring hair loss. Okay, so non-scarring hair loss is hair loss that can happen where it could be reversible. So things like female pattern hair loss we also call that androgenic alopecia Things like traction alopecia, which is from like braids and weaves you probably you've seen some people to me for that all the time A lot of those Also reversible. But when it comes to the scarring hair losses, those tend to be more permanent.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:They tend to have a little bit of a longer course than non-scarring hair loss. So they start out feeling like itchiness in the scalp, soreness, tenderness, sometimes little bumps in the scalp and then, when the inflammation heals, the hair follicles permanently fall out and they don't grow back in.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, and how did you describe that? I know that's scarring, yes, and what else is that associated with? While you know, while it's scarring, is that genetic Sometimes?
Speaker 2:it is.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's genetics right.
Speaker 2:If it's not genetics.
Speaker 1:What is it Like? What can cause scarring?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You know, I think at the end of the day we don't have one solid answer for this yet. Okay, when it comes to certain conditions, scarring conditions, things like CCCA, lpp these are very long words that basically mean you have small areas of scarring scattered on your scalp, that's LPP. Then when they start to coalesce or turn into a large area at the center of the scalp, that's called CCCA.
Speaker 1:So that's central centrifugal cicatricial alopecia scarring at the center of your scalp all the medical terms they need to abbreviate. Girl, you gotta go to school to learn, oh, my gosh. And then also for y'all to remember these words, then you gotta spell these words and then you gotta know what they are the, the structure, the function. It's like my goodness. And then explain it to everybody in a way that they understand it In a way that they understand it.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so those types of hair loss. They have found a gene, a familial gene, that can contribute to having this type of hair loss. They used to call it hot comb alopecia, but now we know it's not related to hot comb or heat.
Speaker 1:Why was it called that before?
Speaker 2:Because a lot of women of color were getting it, and so they were associating it with our use of hot combs. Oh wow, but there are plenty of patients I have who've never used a hot comb in their life, who are showing up with CCCA.
Speaker 2:So it's not only due to heat. Some people think it's due to chemical relaxers and things of that nature. That hasn't been proven. That has not been proven, okay, um, but what we think it is is there's something called folliculitis, or inflammation around your hair follicle, and when it happens over and over and over again, it leads to permanent scarring. Yeah, okay, so you think about your scalp. The way I explain it to my patients that nature of skin is, think about your scalp the way I explain it to my patients at Nature of Skin is. Think about your scalp like a beautiful, fertile garden that's growing all these beautiful plants.
Speaker 2:The garden is your scalp and the flowers represent your hair. So what happens with inflammation and scarring? It's like pouring cement into that garden. The flowers fall out and they'll try to grow back again, but more cement is poured into the garden and so, over and over again, that beautiful, beautiful, fertile garden it goes bare oh, that makes so much sense.
Speaker 1:That's a good analogy to help the you know patient understand. Yeah, you know. Opposed to it, um, that, because the terminology can be wrapping your head around. That it's enough, you know. But I love how you, you know, are able to come up with your own way of communicating to the patient so that they understand exactly you know what you are trying to explain. So it clicks, because it's clicking for me now.
Speaker 2:So I'm like, oh, I can see, I can visually see now you know.
Speaker 1:So I love that.
Speaker 2:Look at you what are some of the most common types of hair loss you see in your practice. I think for sure um one of the top ones that I see in my practice is traction, traction. So traction alopecia from braids, from weaves, from just leaving these hairstyles in too quickly, too long can cause very significant hair loss. Okay, and then another really common one is androgenic alopecia. Female, male pattern baldness yes, which tends?
Speaker 2:to be more hereditary, more genetic. Okay, it usually starts at the temples and then spreads to the top of the scalp with thinning.
Speaker 1:Oh so. Is it at the temples and only at the crown, or does it spread like it travels? It tends to spread. Oh, so does it. Is it at the temples and only at the crown, or does it spread like it travels? It tends to spread.
Speaker 2:It tends to spread, so it'll start at the temples. You'll start to see it first at the temples and then it'll start to involve the rest of the scalp, the top of the scalp.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, so those are the top two that you see. How, how would you go about treating these?
Speaker 2:Those are the top two that you see. How would you go about treating these? So traction, alopecia it's really all about changing up those hairstyles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I bet that's so hard, huh. It's hard for them.
Speaker 2:I have to negotiate with my patients sometimes because they'll come in and be like Dr Sia. I have this cruise coming up. I just want to do something. I don't want to have to deal with my hair. I want to go into the ocean, I want to go swimming, and so then we start the negotiations, like how long are you going to have it in here? For you can't keep it in for eight weeks.
Speaker 1:So we usually, I just usually settle, oh gosh, because I have it myself. That's why I'm laughing, you know, after they come see you. And they come see you and I'll be like, well, what did she say? And they say, well, and I'm like, well, go with whatever she said. I think they try to come to me to try to get another solution. I'm like I'm going to go with the doctor's orders. I don't know what. That's why I sent you to her. I don't know what to do from here. So that's why I'm laughing, because I'm like yes, yes, yes, I mean I get it.
Speaker 2:It's like really inconvenient saying to have to like put in a hairstyle that costs a few hundred dollars and then take it right back out. But I tell my patients that the most gentle hairstyles you'll find are more like the crochets. Yeah, because your hair is braided down to your scalp. You're not dealing with single braids Right which, because your hair is braided down to your scalp, you're not dealing with single braids right, which put more tension at your root and then you can take it out in two, three weeks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not as expensive.
Speaker 2:And it's not as expensive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so crochet. So that's a good one that I can tell my clients yes, crochet, crochet, okay, any other ones. Flat twists are fantastic Flat twists but not cornrows.
Speaker 2:You can do cornrows, as long as they're loose, okay, and you don't keep them in for longer than I would say max four weeks.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's not bad.
Speaker 2:I don't think so. Yeah, I think that's a pretty good negotiation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is Especially. You know, get you a unit, throw it on there. That even is more. You know cost effective, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2:Wigs are great. I'm pro wigs. Okay, wigs are a protective hairstyle. Right, take care of your hair underneath it. Keep it flat, twisted or loosely cornrowed, yeah, and then you can rock your wig.
Speaker 1:I love this yeah, okay, okay, we getting solutions here, y'all.
Speaker 2:Yes, always, always.
Speaker 1:What signs should someone look for to determine if they are experiencing abnormal hair loss versus normal shedding Sure?
Speaker 2:So classically in dermatology we say 100 hairs a day. Okay. So if you're starting to experience more than 100 hairs a day, then it could mean that something else is going on or something else is underlying. I would say in general though especially for I think you know people of color who might not shed quite as much as that Okay, if you start to notice an uptick in general of your hair loss, that's a good time to go in to get treatment. If you start to notice significant thinning, especially at your temples or anywhere else on your scalp, that's a good time to go and try to get ahead of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, as soon as you notice some differences in your hair, like just go get it checked out, get it checked out, do you? Um, are there any, uh, patients that have admitted that they are afraid to come see you, like just having to accept the reality of what's going on, and then, when they do come, it's kind of like it's that it's severe. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's so like, oh, it's so difficult, because the most common patient population I have like this are my patients with locks, my patients with locks. Oh, talk about that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay so like.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know you're investing years, decades, into your hair. Yes, and you're proud of it and you love it.
Speaker 1:It's a journey for locks and then it starts falling out.
Speaker 2:So a lot of my patients with locks take a long time to come into the office because you know they don't want to be told that they will have to cut their locks. Right Makes sense. So my patients with the really really long, really heavy locks I do tend to recommend that they cut it because all of that weight is pulling at the hair follicle and as the hair thins the base of the lock gets smaller and smaller and smaller. And then eventually falls out Exactly and thicker at the bottom.
Speaker 1:Oh, and that's the weight from the lock. That's like pulling at that follicle exactly oh, so when you advise them to cut it, what do they say?
Speaker 2:oh it's, it is.
Speaker 1:It's pretty traumatic experiences, yeah can you imagine, because it's a journey you know for most. Yeah, you know patients cry.
Speaker 2:I've had patients want to negotiate kind of like okay, can I still keep it this length? Can I do this, can I do that? I've had some patients who've embraced it and just gone completely. You know, short, afro, natural hairstyles, dyed it, you know, and look great. But it can take a little while. Once you've had that hairstyle for decades, that's your signature hairstyle, right, it can take a while to accept it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so once they do remove their locks, then they start treatment with you, because there's no point in doing treatment if you're going to hold on to the locks, because the problem is still just going to.
Speaker 2:So listen, I meet my patients where they are Good yeah, it's hard, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I could see the journey being really hard for them to like not move forward with the treatment because of what they have to give up. I know yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'll start treatment. You know, I'll start things like topical steroids, injectable steroids Ooh, I know, listen, it's nobody's favorite, yeah, but it's five treatments once a month for five months and that really helps to stop the inflammation. That cement continuously pouring in the garden will slow down, and so you can retain more of your hairs. And then things like oral minoxidil, Rogaine, topical Rogaine I compound like five different ingredients together, like Latisse, the eyelash grower, topical finasteride.
Speaker 1:Do you make these products?
Speaker 2:I send it to a compounding pharmacy and they make it for my patients specifically.
Speaker 1:Oh, my gosh. That's why you have all these girl clients that are like restoring their hair loss. Yeah, oh, my the science behind it all that you've intentionally taken upon yourself to like really learn how can we reverse this? Yes, oh, am yes so impressed. Oh, thank you. Okay, so you send it off to and, like girl, you gotta walk me through this. Like, come on, tell me some more.
Speaker 2:So when a patient comes in to see me at nature of Skin, the first thing I do is go through their history right, like how long has the hair loss been going on for? Are you noticing it when you're styling versus when you're shampooing? Do you have any type of genetics, your family history? And then we go into kind of like stress, because cortisol, the stress hormone, can facilitate or increase hair loss. So we got to get some stress management on board. I usually do that with supplements and things like discussing mindfulness and meditation, and then from there we're talking about potentially doing a biopsy to confirm what the diagnosis is. So if it's something like scarring hair loss, I'm going to almost always do a biopsy. Sometimes I found discoid lupus when I'm not looking for discoid lupus. So you just really never know what's going on at the level of the skin.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know you could find it in your practice. Yep, OMG, I'm like you got to get some blood drawn.
Speaker 2:And I do labs too.
Speaker 1:I check your thyroid, your vitamin d, I check your anemia.
Speaker 2:I check your iron ferritin, sometimes copper. Sometimes I check your hormones your testosterone, your estrogen, your progesterone.
Speaker 1:I'm checking all these things my goodness yes I am just loving this. Oh my, I had no idea. You know the extent that you you know practice in order to help your clients and I'm like this is why you have so many great results like so many good turnovers. Thank you.
Speaker 1:And they're so happy, like I'm so happy you found her. I'm like Franella found her. I thank God for Franella, you know, because I had no idea. You know that there was a black dermatologist around here. Yeah, I do have a question about that. Is the approach different for you? Know, people of color opposed to you know, european clients? Is it different for me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, it's not. I practice based on the diagnosis that I'm treating. So some of the treatment plans that I'll come up with might be, for instance, I might do more like an oil-based topical steroid for someone with like a natural, like curly, kinky hair. Then I might do more of like a water-based solution for someone with straight hair. So there's a little finesse in the treatment plans that we're doing, but essentially it's going to be the same thing for both groups of people. We want to stop inflammation, grow the hair.
Speaker 1:Because my clients, whenever they've tried dermatologists in the past that were white, they just never had success. So I'm trying to understand is the approach differently?
Speaker 2:I think the approach might be different. I think really what it has to do with is training, residency training. So I was in a very comprehensive residency training. I was trained by an amazing dermatologist. Her name is Lynn Goldberg, she's out of Boston University, okay, and she's also a pathologist. So not only would we look at hair in the clinic, we would look at hair under the microscope, omg, and develop all these treatment plans. So I really learned from her and from there I just kept getting continuing education based on what I was seeing, what my patients were asking for.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, so it's all about continuing education in everything let's be honest, you have to, yeah, everything like let's be honest, you know, you have to, yeah, and so, um, that's why I was excited that there was a black dermatologist in the area, because it just seemed as though my clients could not have success unless it was somebody black, you know. So, um, yeah, I just felt helpless. You know, before I saw you, I was like I don know, and they were prescribing, like pink or this blue shampoo for clients this pink or blue shampoo.
Speaker 2:Ketoconazole. What is that?
Speaker 1:It's like the most recommended, the most prescribed. Is it over the?
Speaker 2:counter or is it prescribed? So yes, over, the counter is called Nizarel, so it's like a 1% and then the prescription strength is 2% ketoconazole. It's basically the same thing, but the reason I get so many complaints about it I stopped prescribing it really is because it dries out curly hair. Even people with Latinas, curly haired European descent people all are complaining about dry hair, so that's no longer my go-to. I rarely prescribe that for the scalp now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because my clients would bring it in and after I would shampoo I'd be like, oh my goodness, like your hair feels so brittle, like I want to follow up with something moisturizing afterwards. But I used to be so confused because I'm like, is it going to mess up the treatment? Yeah, you know that the doctor has prescribed for my client. I used to be like I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do, but we're going to figure it out.
Speaker 2:Pantazol is a mess, so I love the shampoos that are more zinc-based. Now they have zinc purithione as an ingredient. Selenium sulfide is another one. Some of my patients don't want to be washing their hair all the time, so we use sprays and lotions instead of shampoos. Yeah, so there's a lot of different things.
Speaker 1:Y'all better be getting this information. How important is early intervention when it comes to hair loss?
Speaker 2:It is of the utmost importance. I think of hair like spun gold, and once it starts to come out, there's a chance that you might never get it back. So the earlier you get to treatment, the more hair you'll hold on to, and some of my patients get scared of treating with things like oral minoxidil and Rogaine.
Speaker 1:My hair started coming out. I'm like what you need to do, Do everything. Inject my head like what you need to do, Do everything.
Speaker 2:Inject my head. What do you need to do? Spun gold. So you know, I really have to talk to patients and talk to them, negotiate with them about what they're willing to do. Like I mentioned earlier, stress is a big component of hair loss. So during COVID, I was seeing more hair loss than I'd ever seen my entire career because of the stress, and so I started getting into supplements and things like ashwagandha, things like probiotics, things like turmeric. How do we naturally lower inflammation and stress in the body? And now I am embarking on creating my own hair loss formulation.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, Do you have a name for it yet?
Speaker 2:My nature of skin hair loss formulation yes, rapid hair growth formula. When will this be available? Likely within the next six months to a year okay, yeah, good yep, so check out our website, okay, shop natureofskincom. All right, and I'll see it on there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, okay that's some good stuff, okay, and so these products will help maintain. Okay, got you.
Speaker 2:And grow hair. So, like there's so many different ingredients that we're just learning are helpful for growing hair Some of them are from Ayurveda, indian medicine, some of them are from Eastern, like Chinese, medicine there's an ingredient called amla that can help to grow hair. It's an Ayurvedic herb. We already know about things like ashwagandha that can help to reduce cortisol and help grow hair. That way, saw palmetto is a wonderful ingredient for growing hair. Then you've got varangaraj, false daisy. That's another great one for growing hair. So what we're doing is basically taking all of these different ingredients that are in all these separate products and putting it in one place.
Speaker 1:Okay. Oh my goodness, I cannot. You said six months to a year. Six months to a year.
Speaker 2:I got to be on the lookout for that.
Speaker 1:I'll send you some samples. Yes, please do. I really appreciate it. I'm buying some too, though, because I already believe in you.
Speaker 2:I've seen what you can do. Thank you, so I'm already a customer, okay.
Speaker 1:Are there over-the-counter products or at-home treatments that you recommend or discourage?
Speaker 2:It depends on for what issue, right? Oh yeah, so we're talking about hair loss Over-the-counter products that I love for hair loss Minoxidil. Okay, 5% People get scared because you have to do it forever. Once you start, you can't stop. Once you start, you can't stop. Once you start, you can't stop, I wouldn't even care.
Speaker 2:So desperate. So I would say that if somebody starts to notice hair thinning, especially in that temple frontal scalp area, like I mentioned before, that's a really good place to start. But it's also important to just kind of go get your blood work done. Make sure it's not something internal, like your thyroid, your vitamin D levels or anemia. Those are the main ones.
Speaker 2:Other over-the-counter products. I love one of my major go-tos. If you come see me and you have flaking scalp, itchy scalp, dandruff, royal oils shampoo by head and shoulders, moisturizing anti-dandruff shampoo, okay, people love it.
Speaker 1:My patients love royal oils I'm glad you share that because my daughter's she's experiencing dandruff right now and she actually this morning she woke up mad. She was like I spent 30 minutes just getting these flakes out of my. She has locks out of my locks. So I went and purchased nioxin. If that doesn't work, I purchased it today. If that doesn't work, I'm definitely gonna try the royal oil oil oil my head and shoulders.
Speaker 2:Yes, they also have a spray. So if she doesn't want to be washing her hair all the time, get her the spray and she could spray it in between her locks okay, okay, okay, all right, got that. And if it doesn't?
Speaker 1:work, send her on in.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to see her.
Speaker 1:Okay, are you familiar with Nioxin Mm-hmm?
Speaker 2:Okay, what do you think Over the counter? I mean, honestly, I don't recommend it very much.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, Tell me why. Oh, I need to know this information.
Speaker 2:I mean, it depends on what you're using it for, right. You're using it for dandruff, yes, so I haven't really seen a lot of success with it. I've honestly seen a little bit more success with the old school sulfur eight than I have with like over the counter, like nioxin. So I like dandruff, anti-dandruff solutions that are like zinc based. I love selenium sulfide, those areide, those are great. Sulfur based is also good for the people who want to stay kind of holistic and natural.
Speaker 1:okay, sulfur based washes and soaps are good too okay, yeah, oh my goodness, because, um, I have an older uh colleague, I guess you can say, and she does not recommend nioxin. She just feel like it's well for my daughter. She's like maybe once she gets older, but not now, because her scalp is so premature, you know, for those reasons. But she didn't say necessarily didn't work. But I did notice we got the scalp recovery serum for my daughter. It worked in the past but this time it's not working.
Speaker 1:So that's why I went back and got the shampoo and the conditioner. Interesting, I'm like maybe I need a pair of these together to see what works. But if it don't work, I'm just going to go try to hit it.
Speaker 2:Try it. What's the active ingredient in Nioxin?
Speaker 1:I don't know yet because I've never really used it. So I just was going based off of a recommendation and then when I was discussing it with my colleague, she was just like no, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:And then I interviewed a trichologist and she said yes good, I don't know Really, I guess it depends on the person. I guess it do, I don't know. I'll say two other things that I tend to see flare, scalp, dandruff, I don't know. I'll say two other things that I tend to see flare, scalp dandruff. One getting braids or just freshly twisted locks. Yeah, the tension tends to trigger inflammation and the inflammation shows up. It's dandruff, okay. And then two people who are eating a lot of sugar-based foods. So if you're eating a lot of carb-based foods, if you're eating a lot of sugary snacks sodas, candies and cakes those folks do tend to flare more too.
Speaker 1:She's been eating a lot of that stuff lately. That's probably her problem. She was doing well for like, I think, roughly like six months and it just flared back up maybe like a month ago. But I know and I told her that was around the holidays, yeah, and she, ever since she got those braces removed, she just be going to town without types of sugar. Just girl, like, golly Like, should we put the braces back on so you can practice good oral hygiene? This girl, her oral hygiene is great, but she do like sugar.
Speaker 2:We'll see Around the holidays. I think we all have some sugar issues. I know I certainly do.
Speaker 1:I like me some pumpkin pie. The braces are saving me right now. I used to be a big candy person.
Speaker 2:I am too yeah but these braces and the way how stuff like the wrap, is so aggravating. I'm just like no If it gives me problems eating it. I don't eat it now.
Speaker 1:So I'm more for, like mashed potatoes, mac and cheese, anything mushy. Okay, so I don't require a lot of chewing and I can just swallow and move on. Oh my goodness, it's ahy.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it don't require a lot of chewing and I can just swallow and move on. Oh my goodness, it's a struggle. Wow, I can't wait to get them off so I can eat. When are you getting them off?
Speaker 1:They don't know. Yet I have this. They say unique case, so they're even documenting it. Oh wow. Yeah, so unique and it's because, like um, one of my laterals didn't grow in, so they're having to, like, recreate and shape my anatomy.
Speaker 2:Oh wow so yeah, so they're like extensive surgery oh yeah, I've had three oral surgeries so far.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have one more, oh my goodness yeah, but before it is you, you really couldn't even tell it was just um, because my teeth started slanting to cover that space, so you couldn't even tell that that tooth did not grow in. Yeah, wow. And then, when they started moving my teeth around, I'm like, oh, my goodness, it's so prominent, can y'all please fix this? Can y'all please hurry up and fix this problem? So, but he said I think um september he'll be done with everything. Um, well, the oral surgery, oh yeah, but as far as the braces, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm just praying I'm just taking it up with god well, positive is you're staying away from sugar.
Speaker 1:Yeah that is yeah, I have been eating so much better since I've had braces, and the ortho even told me that he was like at least you'll be healthier, because I'm telling you a lot of foods that you probably like to eat. You're not going to want to eat them. It's going to give you so many problems and he was not lying Like I just like nope, I don't want to have nothing to do with it. It's a gift and a curse, I guess. What role does diet and overall health play in maintaining healthy hair, preventing hair loss? If you want to elaborate and extend more, we would love to hear.
Speaker 2:That's an excellent question, because that nature of skin, the whole ethos or philosophy behind my practice, is that we are approaching skin conditions and hair loss in a holistic way, and so that's why I do talk about things like what we're taking in, what we're consuming. That's why we do talk about things like stress, because managing those two things can actually also help improve not only our hair loss but just our overall health and wellness. So I always talk to my patients about anti-inflammatory protocol and staying away from inflammatory foods. So inflammatory foods are going to be absorbed into the body. They're going to be seen as glucose, as sugar.
Speaker 2:They're going to increase certain levels of other hormones that then, can facilitate hair loss, and so things like sugar, white flour, refined starches, animal dairy, so milk, cheese from animals, sometimes even red meat and saturated fats or fried foods, those are the main five.
Speaker 1:Oh, I got a lot of reading, girl.
Speaker 2:Ooh, my food chart is terrible, because part of it, too, is we know that we have this whole thing called a gut-brain axis, and our gut is where a lot of really good neurotransmitters are produced. It's bacteria produced, I think, about 80% of the serotonin in our bodies.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Okay, yes, and they're all in our gut. And so what happens? When we're eating more of these inflammatory foods, these sugars, these dairies and all that is, we literally change the bacteria that grow in our gut and they start producing other chemicals that are not so helpful for us and other things that are cycling back to the brain and being seen as inflammatory. Cycling into the skin, causing acne. Cycling to the hair, causing hair loss, oh OMG. Cycling to the brain, causing brain fogginess, mood issues, things of that nature, causing bloating in the stomach. So all of those things, all of those things are connected. Our body is a system that works together, and so what we put into our mouths, what we put into our minds, can actually show up on our hair, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's so sensitive. Hair is Even the skin. It responds and reacts to everything that's going on in your body.
Speaker 2:It really does.
Speaker 1:And I always tell my clients if you are experiencing unexpected hair loss, go get blood work. You just never know what it is. That's really important. That's a really good point. Yeah, it is, Especially if you don't get chemical services and you don't even wear braids.
Speaker 1:I always be like check your blood work One of my clients. For three months she was like my hair is thinning, I don't know what's going on. I told her go get some blood work because I don't know your scalp looks great. You know your hair is growing but it is thinner and I think it took about three months for her to get that blood work. But then she brought up excuse me, brought up Ozempic and I was like more than likely.
Speaker 1:They might be contributing. I said that's probably where the issue is. Yeah, but I think also encouraging the client to go get blood work. I think that's hard for them because they don't want to know what if it is something you know something bigger than my hair, you know like lupus you know, because I do wonder why don't you go get the blood work? Let's see what's going on so we can hurry up and give you know, provide a solution. And I do wonder, like what is it?
Speaker 2:You know I have to like listen, go get the blood work done.
Speaker 1:You know, I told her three months ago yeah, it's just like I still haven't done it, and I said why? She's like, I don't know, I just haven't done it, I'll do it. Since you are a doctor, I'm like do you believe it's something emotionally, you know, triggering?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean absolutely when you stated that earlier.
Speaker 1:I'm like. Now it's making sense to me why some of my clients will not go do it sometimes, whenever I recommend it, it is, I think such a deep.
Speaker 2:I think there's just been a lot of mistrust of the medical community. Yeah, sometimes within our communities. Right, that's a big part of it, that's historical. So it's like am I going to be taken, am I going to be seen? Am I going to be taken seriously? Am?
Speaker 1:I going to be brushed off.
Speaker 2:I have so many patients that come in and say I went to this office and they just brushed me off. They said I would just have to deal with this for the rest of my life. And that was 20 years ago when they could have actually done something about their hair loss. Oh, I can see that you know, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Yep, absolutely that's a big part of it. Yeah, and I didn't even think to that extent. So I'm glad you did bring that up, because I'm thinking it's maybe just a health concern that they don't want to know about that. They have to now adjust to a different lifestyle, but when you brought that up, that is definitely a great POV, for sure.
Speaker 2:Mm fed up. Yeah, that is definitely a great pov, for sure. There's definitely that there's fear, right like what are we gonna find out? You know what could be?
Speaker 1:wrong with me?
Speaker 2:I don't really want anything to be wrong with me, yeah there's that, there's a fear that they're gonna potentially like be ashamed. You know, I think there's a lot of shame that comes in when we start losing our hair you know Absolutely. A lot of patients think it's their fault. So there's that wrapped up in there and I have to really explain that this is genetically inherited or this is related to your thyroid disease, right? And if we can get ahead of that, then we can retain some of these hairs, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all righty. So now we're going to shift to, I guess, tension alopecia and hairstyling. Okay For people experiencing tension alopecia. What are some of the key causes and how can they prevent further damage?
Speaker 2:Number one is not doing back-to-back tension hairstyles. So don't braid your hair back-to-back. Don't do your full weaves back-to-back. Make sure you're constantly switching out your hairstyles. That's really the most important piece. Find some good, protective hairstyles you could rock like at least 50% of the year. Yes, whether it's a wig, whether it's flat twists, whether it's loose cornrows whatever you want to do.
Speaker 2:Twist outs are beautiful and great, yeah, so just find some hairstyles to kind of like rotate through. Yeah, you can still have, you know, some braids from time to time, some weaves from time to time, keeping them in a shorter amount of time. This is really important. So I tell my patients four weeks yeah get four weeks with this and then switch to something it's about balance, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, because constantly back, you know, constantly you know, incorporating those uh hairstyles, that causes so much tension. It's like that follicles never get a break. You know a break.
Speaker 2:I mean, you see, I'm sure you see it yeah, all the time you see a lot of traction right oh my goodness what do you tell them, like, how do you get them to stop doing it?
Speaker 1:girl. How do I encourage these clients to stop? It depends on the client. You know, um, some clients they receive it and they will stop. But then I have others who are just so afraid of, you know, they just don't know how to do their natural hair, so they steer away from it. You know, they will wear those styles back to back, right, and I think, just instilling the fear. Honestly, you know I hate to go that route, yeah, but I have to. You know, I have to present the worst case scenario in order for them to move forward with. You know what I'm, you know advising them to do.
Speaker 1:And sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. Sometimes I never see them again because it's not what they're not. They don't want to hear that.
Speaker 2:Right and.
Speaker 1:I understand that too, you know, don't want to hear that right, and I understand that too, you know. But, um, I feel as though if, if you really want a solution and if you really want to move forward, whatever that goal is that you have in mind for yourself, yeah, if you truly want to accomplish that goal, then you have to take those sacrifices. That's just life period, you know, in order to reach the bigger goal, it comes with some sacrifices that we all don't like to.
Speaker 2:We don't like to do you know it's the truth.
Speaker 1:And then I try to even use that too. You know, like, whatever goals that you have for yourself right now, you know, you know they come with these small sacrifices, sacrifices that we just absolutely hate to even, you know, walk ourselves through. But it's going to be for the bigger goal and that's what's most important. And it's for a short term. You know, I try to help them also understand this is for a short amount of time. That feels like forever, you know, but once you get there, you can be like it really wasn't that bad. It really.
Speaker 1:Once you reach the goal, you know it's worth it, you know so. Just, you reach the goal, yeah, you know it's worth it. You know so. Just, constantly consulting, encouraging, trying not to be discouraging, but sometimes they hear you differently too. You know you have no control of it. You know so sometimes, uh, only a very small percentage don't come back. And then you have some that are like, yeah, I'm gonna do this, I don't care, whatever it takes, I'm gonna do it right. I'm sure you probably see that all the time yeah yep, you have the solution right there.
Speaker 1:All you gotta do is meet me halfway come on, come on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I see, I see the resistance all the time. It's kind of like you know, somebody is on like trying to get on a weight loss journey, right, and they know they have to do certain things to get to the end goal of that journey. Yeah, same thing with hair loss, it sure is. Once it started, it's a journey to kind of get you to your goal, and you must be willing to put in the work and put in the effort and sometimes the discomfort of getting to that goal.
Speaker 1:And it's very uncomfortable. And it's also the uncertainty because I've had clients to say what if it don't work? And I'm like it's going to work. I've seen it work. You know. The only time it won't work is if I need to refer you to a doctor on my end. You know when I can help you, I can help you, but other than that, I'm going to refer you out and I'm going to be completely transparent about my you know expertise. Whether I can help you or not, you know. But if I'm 100% sure, all you got to do is just take my hand. Yeah, and let me guide you along the way you know.
Speaker 2:That's very sweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We're on the same team. Yeah, we are for sure we're in this together yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Is it necessary to stay away from certain hairstyles like braids, flat twists or foundation styles for wigs during treatment.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I'll tell you why. It's because every single time I see my patients, we take photos, and it's the same photos every time. We take a front facing photo, sides, top, back. And when people have extensions in their hair, I cannot objectively tell you whether your hair is improving or not. And not only that if we have to do steroid injections, I can't see the areas that I need to inject, so you're not getting the amount of care that I would normally provide for you, because extensions are covering up your scalp. That's right.
Speaker 1:So will they arrive that way?
Speaker 2:I've had to tell some patients, listen, I can't do your hair at all. So sometimes they come in with the piece I don't know what it's called when you do the net. Yeah, the sew-in with the net you can't see anything.
Speaker 1:yeah, you can't see anything, anything I have to reschedule them.
Speaker 2:I tell them I can't. There's nothing I can do today to keep using your topicals, keep taking your pills. If you're on pills, and then let's schedule you back from when you have those out of your scalp, because otherwise I can't help you today.
Speaker 1:No, at all. So what about, um, when they're trying to negotiate? Okay, we started treatment, they come back. You know, you rescheduled them. We started treatment. They come back, their hair is free and, um, you start the treatment and then later on they do want to get those braids. So they can get the braids, as long as they're loose, in the flat twist styles. Okay, just want to make sure, because I need this advice from my clients. I'm like, okay, I heard from a doctor, you can do this now, because I just want to make sure that they stay the course and make sure that they get those results that they are seeking, and I don't want to be the one to steer them in the wrong direction and then mess up the entire treatment plan that you have organized for them. You know, okay, I just want to make sure I'm hearing that correctly. Short term.
Speaker 2:Loose braid, loose cornrows, flat toes are okay. Yeah, the. I think the safest hairstyle if you're going on vacation is a cute crochet that you take out after two to four weeks. Yeah, okay, yep.
Speaker 1:Got that one. How can someone balance their love for protective styling while experiencing hair loss? The ones that aren't going on vacation and you know that, love to keep their hair protected because they don't want to, you know have to manage their natural hair. How do you find a balance for those during treatment?
Speaker 2:That is interesting, you know, I think a lot of my patients. I have a handful of patients who stay in wigs Okay, Like they and they don't really have significant hair loss, they're just have a little bit of thinning. But they're just more comfortable putting the hair away because then that way they don't have to take care of it as much yes.
Speaker 2:And I'm actually fine with that. So what they usually do is I'll have them. I always like my patients to wash their hair before they come, at least a few days before, so that I can really get a close look at the scalp, I can part the hair. I really get in there. I'm looking for inflammation around the follicles, I'm looking for flakiness. So my patients who keep their hair braided up underneath wigs all they do is just take it out a few days before they come with it to the practice. Then right after they leave, they do their thing again so that they can keep wearing their protective styles and I don't have too much of a problem with that.
Speaker 2:I know there's kind of like an old wives tale like you should let your scalp breathe and all those kinds of things. I know there's kind of like an old wives tale like you should let your scalp breathe and all those kinds of things. I find that the scalp gets oxygen through wigs pretty easily. It's a net and there's a lot of air, kind of like rotating in that area.
Speaker 2:I tell my patients always never sleep in your wigs. Do not glue your pieces down unless you have some kind of important event and you want to do that one time. Take it off the next day, right, because the glue itself can cause the hair to fall out absolutely yes, especially um for the, um the frontal wigs, whenever they glue those lace fronts you'll notice like there's a.
Speaker 1:The perimeter from ear to ear is, yeah, gone. Is that scarring or is that tension? What type of alopecia is?
Speaker 2:it. I would say it's kind of more in the traction family, because what's happening is that glue is getting pulled off over and over and over again, and along with the glue is going to come some hair. And the more often you're installing these wigs and taking them off over and over again the more hair you're going to lose. Okay, so you'll see a lot of actresses, hollywood stars, performers who wear installed wigs. They don't have a hairline anymore. They don't.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, and it's really smooth, as if, like you know, like if you have like a and you can correct me if I'm wrong it's like it feels like an active follicle because there's some texture there, but what?
Speaker 2:I've noticed is there's a smooth. What is it? The hair is completely gone.
Speaker 1:Is that scarring it's?
Speaker 2:sometimes it's scarring if it's flat and shiny. So yeah, flat and shiny yeah shininess is scarring okay yeah, okay, not to be confused with another type of hair loss called frontal fibrosing alopecia okay that causes scarring throughout the front of the scalp and that is an inflammatory condition. Okay, right, but then you can also have trauma to the scalp that causes scarring too, with the bonding glues and things like that.
Speaker 1:Okay, ooh, child, I'm in class. You hear me? Oh, my goodness, I guess you've answered this one too, where we say do you have any advice for stylists on creating styles that minimize the risk of hair damage?
Speaker 2:yeah, definitely I mean, it sounds like you do a really thorough job, you know, counseling patients, making sure that they're not keeping their hairstyles in too long.
Speaker 2:talking about tension, um, that's really the one of the most important pieces is being able to counsel your patient, your clients, on how often they should be getting this hairstyle. When you're starting to see signs yourself of hair thinning at the temples especially thinking about traction and telling them to take breaks, say let's switch to this. You know less low tension hairstyle. Let's switch to something like flat twist. Why don't we switch to something like a twist out? Yeah, you know or blow out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can hear like that for a while. Yeah, that that one right there. None of my clients want to rock that, blow out.
Speaker 2:I mean we're all in Texas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like. It's like a press. I have maybe one or two.
Speaker 2:They'll come and they'll be like, leave it fro, like I'm good to go, they'll rock that fro.
Speaker 1:It looks so good too. But, not a lot of them. They'll be like I'm not dealing with this when I leave you. What am I supposed to do with it?
Speaker 2:You turn it into a twist out. Add some foam, add some pearl styling cream. Yeah, Turn it into a twist out.
Speaker 1:I think the maintenance, you know, is a lot for especially my clients. It's just so much maintenance, so much upkeep, so many things to remember, so much information out here on social media too. You know whether it's great information, whether it's misleading, you know, and I I believe there's a sense of over overwhelming too.
Speaker 2:It is overwhelming it's a lot of information and from all these different sources, you don't really know who to trust. Yeah, you know, I think we all have this little person inside of us with so much wisdom. I think a lot of us know when these things are starting to happen, whether or not we choose to listen is a different thing entirely.
Speaker 1:That's right. Ignoring, you know, not wanting to sit into the reality too, you know that's true, I'm guilty of some of it, aren't we all? Aren't we not all? Yes, indeed. What myths about hair loss do you often encounter with?
Speaker 2:your patients.
Speaker 1:Are there any?
Speaker 2:Myths about hair loss. I think one of the most common myths that still comes up in my practice today is people think that if they cut their hair it'll grow faster.
Speaker 1:That is such a myth. It's the biggest myth ever. Thank you, it's the biggest myth, thank you.
Speaker 2:There's still people coming in thinking that they cut they cut their hair, it'll grow faster.
Speaker 1:No, um I tell them what's happening is you are removing your dead ends and you're retaining length. Exactly that's it, you know. And now your hair is growing, you know, at a rate that seems faster when you are just cutting your dead ends, and it's very minimal now because you've been taking care of your dead ends. So now it just seems like you're holding on to so much hair because you're getting rid of the dead ends now and then they'd be like, oh, I'm like yeah, but it ain't gonna help your hair grow faster.
Speaker 1:That's not biology, that's a good one. I'm glad you brought that yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm shocked that it still comes up. But it still comes up, yeah.
Speaker 1:It sure does yeah.
Speaker 2:Some people think that fleekiness of the scalp dandruff is contagious, like they could give it to somebody else. I've been asked that several times, yeah.
Speaker 1:Are there any scalp conditions that are contagious?
Speaker 2:It's a fungal infection? Okay, it can be. You know like little kids in school often get ringworm of the scalp and they get these circles, these patches of hair loss. That can definitely go to somebody else. It's actually highly contagious. Okay, you can also get it from your pets at home your dogs and cats and things.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, I'm glad you addressed that. Okay, are there any other myths?
Speaker 2:There are a lot of things going on about things like rice water.
Speaker 1:Oh, talk about the rice water girl. Come on, Please tell them about this rice water myth.
Speaker 2:So people think that using the rice water will help their hair grow, and rice water is not necessarily something that helps your health grow. It's more of a strengthening thing. So when we're reducing breakage, it's going to look like our hair is growing because we're retaining length. But it has nothing to do with the rice water making the hair grow, and I'm sure you are. You talk to so many people about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know a lot of people still don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because you can go on YouTube and it's still being promoted, you know, as if it's this miracle hair.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, like you said, it's like a restorative. Yes, it's not a hair growth product. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:It's like a protein treatment.
Speaker 1:Thank you, ma'am. That's exactly what it is. It's restoring lost protein. That's it. I love that. Can hair restoration treatments like prp or hair transplants work for everyone, or are there limitations? That is?
Speaker 2:a wonderful question, actually, it's. One of my favorite things is um taking clients, patients who have hair loss and have tried all these different treatment options for their hair loss and nothing's worked and doing something like PRP. So for PRP, platelet-rich plasma is when we draw your blood, we spin it down to the platelet layer and then we inject it back into your scalp. And sometimes I'll combine that with things like microneedling, which is a pen that has 36 micropins in it, where I make channels in the skin and then I drizzle the PRP in, massage it in as well as inject the PRP. Yes, so it's like two treatments in one. Oh, I have had really good success with patients with early scarring that have come and done PRP, because PRP reduces inflammation and grows hair at the same time.
Speaker 1:Oh, so those results are probably pretty quick.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, three treatments Takes three treatments once a month for three months and then usually by that three-month period to about six months, we're seeing improvement. Sometimes it's as soon as the second treatment, but I love those treatments. And I'm bringing on a new treatment into the practice, that's tattooing. So I'm going to be tattooing medications into people's scalp.
Speaker 2:How do you do that? I have a tattoo machine and I have a tattoo needle that actually will draw up medication into it, and then I then tattoo the medication into the scalp and that way you avoid systemic side effects. There's no side effects of the medications. You do have to do it pretty regularly, like every month for three to six months and then every quarter for maintenance. But, there's no pills needed.
Speaker 1:Oh my, you are just so innovative. I have never even heard of that.
Speaker 2:Is that a practice? It's new. It's a new thing, so I think it was developed maybe about five years ago. Five to 10 years ago, I learned about it from a dermatologist named Carlos Wambie, who's wildly innovative in the space of dermatology.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so it was developed by a Latin American doctor I believe he's a hair transplant surgeon and now we're bringing it Carlos is bringing it into dermatology.
Speaker 1:Oh, my God, isn't that cool. This is amazing. It is. I mean, it's like all of these my clients. They already have success stories with you but depending on the client and what they need and whatever, I guess, treatment that they're more comfortable with, they have so many options. It's not like this one thing. So I like that too, just knowing that they have so many options that they can choose from, depending on, I guess, how aggressive, how not aggressive, that they want to approach it. So I'm like I didn't know there were so many options.
Speaker 2:There are so many options. There are so many options. I think the first thing that people say a lot of my patients say when they come in is I really didn't know that there were so many different ways to treat this hair loss. I was told that there was nothing I could do, and so it just brings me great joy when I can say hey, you can do one of these five things.
Speaker 2:We can start here. You still got these four other options. We're going to work, work together. It'll be a six month to one year thing, yeah, and we can just kind of monitor your progress and work together.
Speaker 1:One thing my clients love about you is they um, you start treatment same day. Yep, they love that. You know, um, that's the most I, that's the most feedback that I received from them, that they love them, like she was on it day one, instead of let's see what this and this and this and this, and they're like no, it was like right in there. Yeah, I love that too, because now you feel like you can really step into that journey of fixing whatever the cause is.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the feedback I get all the time from my clients.
Speaker 2:They be like she get right on yes, because guess what Time is hair, the more we wait.
Speaker 1:The more hair we lose, the more hair we lose. I'm on it Time is hair. I love that. What are some warning signs that should prompt someone to seek professional help for hair loss?
Speaker 2:That's a good one. We talked about a little bit of that increase in hair shedding. Yes, that's more common with, like the non-scarring hair losses, visible thinning. Okay, symptoms, so symptomatic scalp, whether it's itchy, whether it's tender, whether it's red, whether it's flaky, those are really good signs to look out for. I think a lot of people know when they're starting to have hair thinning once it's very visible. But not everybody is paying really close attention to the hair in the beginning, so it can be easy to miss it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it can be easy to miss it. I don't, yeah. Yeah, because it's like a gradual thing. It would be different if it all decided like, oh, we're going to all fall out tonight, but I bet it's like hair strands just at a time and different places on the head Is that how it works, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's probably why you can't see it. So a lot of people say, oh, you know, my partner said this, or like my friend saw that, or whatever, so, or whatever. So, sometimes it's someone else having to see that change to help them come into the office.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I referred one of my clients to you. She was experiencing some thinning in the crown and you helped her and she didn't even know she had been getting braids and no one told her. And that was her first time coming to me and I told her. I was like I don't know if you've ever, if you've noticed or anyone around you has noticed, but you have some thinning in your crown and she had no idea, yeah, and then I gave her your information and she started coming to you and she good to go now.
Speaker 2:Well, isn't she lucky that she came to see you, though?
Speaker 1:yeah, some people don't say anything at all yeah, she said she had no one had informed her. She had a color service done. Wow, she was wearing braids and no one told her that she was thinning in her crown. And I was like, oh, don't worry, I got a solution, honey, don't you fret here, go to her, go to her, you will be good to go. And then I had one client. She came to me and I noticed that her texture in the crown was different from her perimeter and I asked her. I was like is has you know? I thought it was like maybe a density situation, like, is your hair higher density in a crown and lower around your perimeter? She was like, no, I was experiencing some hair loss and this grew back in. You know, this texture just grew back in differently. And I was like, oh so who helped you? And it was you. It was you. I'm afraid these ladies are saving lives. What is this?
Speaker 2:One scalp at a time, oh my God. And that's CCCA too for you At a time, oh my God, and that's CCCA too for you. And you know, when people start to present with CCCA that baldness at the top of the scalp, it usually presents as breakage, like they complain that their hair is starting to break off oh no, at the center. And that means that there's inflammation already in the scalp that needs to be treated. But that's early, that's considered early, so you can still save the hair.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I'm learning so much. So much Is hair loss reversible, reversible?
Speaker 2:I would say many times it is Many times okay, not always.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in what cases it's?
Speaker 2:not reversible. Usually, the longer the time has passed, the less likely it is to be reversible, because even things that we do, like PRP, if it's been 20 years that you've had this, you know you're a male, you have male pattern baldness and you're trying to bring your hair back. Yeah, this, you know you're a male, you have male pattern baldness and you're trying to bring your hair back.
Speaker 2:But it's been 20 plus years. The PRP is not going to be as effective as, say, five, 10 years ago for you. So it's all about how long it's been with scarring hair loss, it's about the degree of scarring. So once you see that, you've seen that shiny skin right, Once you start to see a lot of the shiny skin, you know that hair is unfortunately probably not coming back because you don't see a follicle. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that's why, whenever I would see that, I always wonder can this be reversed? You know, because you don't see any signs of any follicles there and I'm like without a follicle there's not going to be any hair that can come through, you know.
Speaker 2:You know it's really interesting is that I've had some cases of scarring hair loss that I thought was never going to come back. Right, I was like this is a Hail Mary, let's do this PRP, let's do this microneedling. I'm very clear with them about setting expectations. Yeah, but this patient really wanted to do this and what I ended up doing was pairing the microneedling with the PRP. Where we're caught, it's kind of like aerating a lawn, right, you're puncturing, making these little channels in the skin and then putting in the PRP and, lo and behold, her hair grew back. Oh, my goodness, and that was you just trying something. I was just trying the microneedling with the PRP. We did three treatments and the area fully grew back. Oh my goodness, so happens with some patients, doesn't happen with others and it's hard to predict who it's going to work for yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh man, at least there's an option to just try yeah you know. Yeah, at least that's that you know versus like girl. It's nothing I can do. I can't help you. Do you? Do you see any males in your practice? I do I see a lot of males.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay all right, cool.
Speaker 1:I was just curious, because you know, of course, my clientele is predominantly women. Do you see any males in your practice? I do, I see a lot of males, okay, all right, cool. I was just curious, because you know, of course, my clientele is predominantly women.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was wondering like what percentage of men do you see opposed to women?
Speaker 1:Sure, I probably see about 25% men 25%, yeah, and they're trying to save their hair. Yes, oh okay. Are they predominantly black, white?
Speaker 2:I have a very, very mixed male patient base. They are a combination of African American, Latino. I have a good amount of sort of like Middle Eastern Persian patients as well, and then I have Asian patients too, okay, and I also have Caucasian patients, so the male population at my practice is actually quite diverse.
Speaker 1:Diverse. Okay, that's good to know. Yeah, everybody don't want to be bald.
Speaker 2:It's a universal shared experience, right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Are there specific ingredients in hair products that people should look for or avoid to support healthy hair growth?
Speaker 2:That people should look for or avoid Definitely that. Avoid one, definitely the. Avoid one Absolutely. What should you avoid in your? Well, I think a lot of hair products now don't contain sulfates. Okay, right. So, sulfates are kind of harsh on the hair. Dry out the hair. Yes, so people are avoiding sulfates. Okay, right, so sulfates are kind of harsh on the hair dry out the hair, so people are avoiding sulfates. I'll be honest, there's this trend towards including things like essential oils.
Speaker 1:Oh, let's talk about that. Yeah, come on, girl's on that trend, come on.
Speaker 2:There's a trend with including all these plant-based ingredients. And listen, my practice name is Nature of Skin. You know I'm plant-based.
Speaker 2:I love all the plant-based things, but a word of caution is that plants are biologically active, meaning even things like aspirin. We got aspirin from a tree bark. A lot of our medicines come from plants, right? So what that means is that when we put something on our skin or we put something in our hair, we could get a reaction to it. Okay, and I'm seeing a lot of things like lavender, lime, bergamot, citrus essential oils in our shampoos, condition lotions, creams, that I'm seeing people react to.
Speaker 2:I had a woman come in with a rash all over her face, all over the back of her neck, and told me she just shampooed her hair and it spread. Oh yeah, well, she shampooed it and the shampoo went down her face, and all that. Within a day or two, she was red, she was flaking, she had a really significant rash. Oh my goodness. And looking at the shot, I went through her allergy list. One of her allergies was Brazil nuts, and so I look on the shampoo bottle and, lo and behold, one of the ingredients is Brazil nut extract.
Speaker 2:Why it was in her shampoo, I don't know, but I would say when it comes to the products that we're using, I don't know, but I would say when it comes to the products that we're using, it's better to lean towards something like the simpler things and not the things with like the 30, 40, 50 ingredients, you know For sure. Yeah, I agree, glycerin those are great humectants that pull moisture into your hair, right, you know? Look for soothing things, like if they want to add things like niacinamide, that's very soothing to the scalp. All those things, really sticking with those four basics.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, keep it simple. Yeah, my hair spritz mixture I recommend at the practice all the time is basically about two ounces of vegetable glycerin, two ounces of aloe vera juice. Yeah, about six ounces of water, 20 drops of oil. Shake it up, mist it once a day. Yeah, we're good to go.
Speaker 1:Very moisturizing. Yeah, mm, hmm, yeah, and it's simplicity just being minimal. Yes, you know, it changes a lot, you, you know? I feel like when you overdo it, you send everything to overkill exactly like keep it simple, keep it simple and uh, because it makes it more complex and also discouraging.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's like I don't want to do, have nothing to do with all of that. You know, like you know, that's that even when, whenever it comes to just a basic hair care regimen that I'm recommending for a client, if you're like well, I saw on youtube, I should be doing this, I should be doing that, I should and and I tell them, just listen, get you a clarifier that you're gonna do that once a month and then you're gonna follow up with moisturizing shampoo and a moisturizing conditioner, mm-hmm, and you're a good leave-in. Okay, and keep it moving.
Speaker 2:What are your favorite ones? Oh, Redken.
Speaker 1:You like Redken, I love Redken, okay.
Speaker 2:Redken and by Lodge, by Lodge.
Speaker 1:So far, those are my top two favorite Mm. Hmm, because they're so gentle on the scalp too, and what I've noticed since a lot of clients have been, since we are transitioning to wearing our curly hair now, it tends to be, quote unquote, drier, even though it's just sometimes the texture of curly hair you know versus when it was straight.
Speaker 2:There's no resistance.
Speaker 1:You have these curls going in different directions, so it creates friction and then it gives you the illusion that your hair is dry, you know. So those Reikin is my go-to for sure, the All Soft Curls line, and then they have an acidic bonding concentrate line. Okay, so it can keep that pH level of that hair and that scalp, you know, at its normalcy you know, Okay, so those are my top two, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there are others out there that I haven't tapped into that I hear a lot of great reviews about, but that's it.
Speaker 2:What do you like for low porosity hair? Because I see that in my practice always Ooh low porosity.
Speaker 1:I always tell my clients it's a struggle to have low porosity hair, but it's also, to me, the most healthiest, because it's a struggle to have low porosity hair, but it's also, to me, the most healthiest because it's so resistant and it's not prone to receiving a lot of things that can be damaged because that cuticle is so shut closed, it's so stubborn. So I would say I still recommend wrecking.
Speaker 2:You know, it's all about adjusting the watering.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's all about adjusting the water temperature. Okay, and because the warmer the hair, it'll lift the cuticle so that it can receive that moisture from the product Got it and so. But I always tell them it's really great to have low porosity hair. It's less prone to getting heat damage because the heat can't penetrate the medulla to alter the curl pattern and make your hair want to stay straight, you know. So I always try to encourage them to embrace, be happy.
Speaker 1:You have low porosity hair. It's not a bad thing. Just adjust the temperature of your water so that the hair can the cuticle can lift, so they can receive. You know the product and that's really it. You know it's. Mostly it also depends on the density. The higher density clients, those are the ones who struggle the most to me. And the lower density, even though they have low porosity, it's easier for their product to receive moisture. When the density is higher, it shrinks. Even though they have low porosity, it's easier for their product to receive moisture. When the density is higher, it shrinks a lot, you know, to the scalp and the curls tend to be tighter.
Speaker 1:Got it and so that's what makes it hard. I tell them be very intentional whenever you are shampooing and conditioning your hair. Sure, don't just throw that shampoo on the hair, and just you know like. You have to be very intentional Whenever you are conditioning your hair. Take the time and work that conditioner through. Don't just throw it on your curls, because they are traveling in different directions and some of those curls aren't going to get some of that love, so you got to be patient and section that hair off. I love that. Yeah, just section it off and really work the product through.
Speaker 2:For low porosity hair Work the product through.
Speaker 1:I have low porosity hair and it's high density too, and I just work that product through. It takes time, it do. It tests patience. Just be patient with yourself. Yeah, you got to be patient and make sure you do your hair on a day where you have nothing to do so that you can give it the love, intention and care that it needs.
Speaker 2:I love that, yeah, because low-price hair.
Speaker 1:I don't want medium, I don't want high and I definitely don't want high. You don't want high. You know. So be happy that it is stubborn, because it takes a lot to break it down, you know. So I try to tell them that and then when they receive that, they're like it's not even that bad. You know, I, after all, I don't really have bad hair, you know. That's why, you know, the information is online. It's so discouraging. You know, I'm like it's not a bad thing to have tight curls, to have shrinkage shrinkages. It's a great sign of great hair health when your hair is shrinking, you know. So I try to encourage them to know that these are really good benefits for your hair.
Speaker 1:You know that means the integrity is in great shape.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that message. I just try to help them embrace what they have.
Speaker 1:And then for my high porosity clients unless, because high porosity doesn't necessarily mean that it's damaged, it could be chemically treated and we just make sure we change the hair care regimen to hair products that are chemically uh related to chemically treated hair, and that's it. You know, like it's so many uh solutions out here that are complex when it's really simple, wow, yeah, that's really it, that's fantastic, yeah, but that's all I have today. You know, I really thank you so much for carving time, I know you're busy because I reached out last year Girl last year.
Speaker 2:the last three months of the year are the busiest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I reached out last year and your assistant told me reach out at the beginning of the year and we should be able to jump on the podcast. I was like I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was so happy Girl, I ran I love talking about this.
Speaker 1:I ran and told my family I was like she's going to be on the podcast.
Speaker 2:I love it. The more education that we can do in our communities really, you know, the better, yeah, and this messaging needs to come out like over and over, and, over and over again, so as many people possible can hear it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you for even having a platform like this where people can learn yeah and feel safe Get resources yeah, that's what it was created for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly what you just said. Yeah, that's what it was created for. Yeah, exactly what you just said. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, how do our listeners find you? How do they connect with you? How do they stay in touch with you? And we need to know about you. Know, because we want to know about this product in a year that you're creating, so we need to know how to stay in contact.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, so you can reach me on Instagram. Instagram, I'm at DrSayaObayin D-R-SayaObayin. I'm on Instagram, and then on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok it's at NatureOfSkinATX. Okay, if you want to email us, you can email us at contact at NatureOfSkinATXcom and our phone number is 512-312-7552. So feel free to call us if you'd like. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:You're welcome. Thank you for tuning in to today's episode of Hair. What I'm Saying? A big thank you to Dr Saya O'Brien for sharing her incredible knowledge and insights on hair loss and restoration. Her expertise in dermatology and dedication to helping individuals reclaim their confidence is truly inspiring. I hope you found this conversation as enlightening as I did. If you'd like to learn more about Dr Abayin's practice or the treatments she offers, be sure to check out Nature of Skin Dermatology in Austin, texas. As always, thank you for listening. Don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with anyone who might find it helpful. Stay tuned for more conversations that inspire, educate and empower. Until next time, take care and keep shining.